Vegetable Root Development

Start a thread for your 'stead!

Moderator: matt walker

Vegetable Root Development

Postby pa_friendly_guy » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:22 pm

I found this ref matterial on line, http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrar ... 37toc.html It is titled Root Development of Vegetable Crops and was written in 1927 by John E Weaver and William E Bruner. Cut and paste the link to read the info. It is very detailed and gives a wealth of imformation about how plant roots develop over time. I was amazed that lettuse roots can extend over 5' into the ground. I hope the link works.
Never doubt that a small group of dedicated people can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has.
User avatar
pa_friendly_guy
 
Posts: 1502
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:24 pm
Location: SW Pa They changed me to zone 6a what ever that is. I still figure zone 5

Re: Vegetable Root Development

Postby matt walker » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:27 pm

Holy cow, what a lot of great info there. Both Sepp Holzer and Fukuoka, and most permaculture plans in general talk about root depth as being a very important factor in choosing plants for guilds and beds. I know what I'll be reading tonight. Thanks for the link!
User avatar
matt walker
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1806
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:50 pm
Location: North Olympic Peninsula

Re: Vegetable Root Development

Postby pa_friendly_guy » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:12 pm

When I 1st saw and read this information I was truely amazed at how for and how deep the roots actually go. Most gardeners around here feel that having 18" of soil is enough depth for any veggies. I was impressed with the detail that this report has. These 2 guys really took alot of time and effort to write this report. I am sure that some new hybred plants may have a different root structure today, but this basic information is a wonderful place to start. I have been double digging my garden in small sections, started with 8' X 8' and now I am up to 10' 10'. I dig down as far as I can dig, which here at my place is 28" to32" until I hit solid rock. I add leaf mulch in layers with the sub soil, screen out the rocks, and add lime to the layers as I go up. My thought was to have a heavy layer of leaves on the bottom to act as a spunge. I knew nothing about Hugalculture at the time. I did put logs at the bottom of the dig last year with rotten wood chips to fill in around them. It is alot of work, but I enjoy it, and I need the exercise. I wanted to give the roots as much room as possible to run deep. I plant my tomatos in the new area each year, it has worked great, they are over 6' high and I never have to water.
Never doubt that a small group of dedicated people can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has.
User avatar
pa_friendly_guy
 
Posts: 1502
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:24 pm
Location: SW Pa They changed me to zone 6a what ever that is. I still figure zone 5

Re: Vegetable Root Development

Postby matt walker » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:04 am

Wow, I'm fascinated. I planted my current garden in manure piles that raised the level of the plot a foot or two above the surrounding soil, which is typically saturated. I was hoping to achieve the same kind of growing conditions it sounds like you have succeeded in creating for your tomatoes. It is inspiring to have verification that indeed the roots systems do extend down to where they can find deeper water sources. I had been thinking that capillary action in the soil was responsible, but it seems the plants are getting much farther down than I first suspected. There's a ton of info in those documents, can you elaborate on conditions that encourage deeper root development. Does withholding surface water help, or hurt?
User avatar
matt walker
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1806
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:50 pm
Location: North Olympic Peninsula

Re: Vegetable Root Development

Postby pa_friendly_guy » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:57 am

I do not know if with holding suface water would help the plants get deeper roots or not, But I don't think with holding anything from the plants in your garden is a good idea. :D I always try to give them as much of what they need as I can. Tomatos are native to South America and are naturally planted by the spring flood waters racing to the sea. As the plant grows and the flood plain dries out the plant roots naturally ran deep after the water. That was the plants natural state, the plants habits have not changed, even though how we plant and grow tomatos has changed over time. Think working with nature and not against it. Allow the plant to grow the way it naturally wants to grow. That is my best advise I guess. The double digging idea seems to be working for me, although after 30 years of organic gardening all of my garden is really pretty good now. The garden is 40' X 35' and has a 4' fence around it to keep out the deer, rabits, and ground hogs. I mulch heavy with grass clippings in the spring around the plants and along all the paths. Mulch with leaves heavy in the fall. If it came out of the ground, it can go back into the ground.
Never doubt that a small group of dedicated people can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has.
User avatar
pa_friendly_guy
 
Posts: 1502
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:24 pm
Location: SW Pa They changed me to zone 6a what ever that is. I still figure zone 5

Re: Vegetable Root Development

Postby eeldip » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:44 pm

i don't know if it applies to the home garden, but i know that lots of commercial organic farmers are pulling back on the compost/manure. there seems to be an optimal amount, and you can over apply. my uneducated guess is that a foot of matter to get things started is fine, but you may want to try reducing that as you go. how much?

ready for some MATH? if you want to make an educated guess you could follow the formula.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distributi ... M1192.html
eeldip
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:45 am

Re: Vegetable Root Development

Postby vicj » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 am

Robert Kourik referenced Weaver and Bruner in his book, Roots Demystified: http://www.robertkourik.com/books/roots1.html . I've not read that one, but discovered Designing and Maintaining Your Edible Landscape Naturally years ago, and found it to be a masterpiece. He also has an interesting blog at http://robertkouriksgardenroots.blogspot.com/ .

Roots up here generally don't penetrate more than a couple of feet--even those of large trees. The ground is too cold. Willows go the deepest, but two feet is about it, if that. I've built a hugelbeet which will hopefully overcome this limitation, and I'm also hoping that it will help with our short seasons by warming up earlier in the spring.
Vic Johanson

"I must Create a System, or be enslaved by another Man's"--William Blake
vicj
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:53 pm
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska

Re: Vegetable Root Development

Postby matt walker » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:24 am

Thanks for the tip on Kourik, Vic. I wasn't aware of him, looks like a great resource.
User avatar
matt walker
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1806
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:50 pm
Location: North Olympic Peninsula

Re: Vegetable Root Development

Postby matt walker » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:03 am

Thanks Vic!
I found a used copy of Designing and Maintaining Your Edible Landscape Naturally online and received it a few hours ago. I sat down with it for the last hour and am completely engrossed and inspired. What an amazing amount of information! Eeldip, I'm looking at you, this is right up your alley, I would think.
User avatar
matt walker
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1806
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:50 pm
Location: North Olympic Peninsula

Re: Vegetable Root Development

Postby eeldip » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:30 am

boy, quite cheap used!

http://www.amazon.com/Designing-Maintai ... 0961584807

i am a little concerned about the 1986 of it... lots more research on the matter in the last 30 years!
eeldip
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:45 am

Next

Return to Members' 'steads

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

cron