I have a question

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I have a question

Postby Lollykoko » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:29 pm

I'm still pretty new at all this stuff, though my research has been several years in the works. Any advice that is offered will be helpful, I'm sure. Two years ago I bought and planted at least a hundred trees and I don't think a single one survived the neglect that resulted from Sis's cancer treatment. Obviously something was left out of the directions! :lol:

My cousin recently bought a place (five acres) and hopes to create a homestead for his growing family. He wants and needs trees. I have 15 acres (or more) of woods, and this time of year it sure looks like there are plenty of young trees scattered among the "old growth". I plan to call Harley and offer him time to come "shop" for a starter woodlot.

What sort of things would we need (or need to know) to do this successfully? A shovel is a given. I have an assortment of plastic pots left over from previous planting experiences ranging in size from two cups to 3 gallons.

Is there a rooting medium that would help stave off transplant shock? Do you water the baby tree when you put it in a new pot? Are willow whips to be stuck in dirt or transported in a water bucket? When a tree is eight inches high, do the leaves look the same as they will when it's eight (or 80) feet tall? Is there a really good resource I should have bought already and be carrying around in the door panel of the pick-up truck?

That's only the questions I know enough to ask. :D Help!
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Re: I have a question

Postby matt walker » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:23 pm

I'm no expert either Lolly, but I'll share what little I know, and hopefully between the gang here we'll get you started in the right direction.

Uh, let's see, willow whips: I bet you couldn't kill 'em if you tried, but a bucket of water or a pile of dirt in the back of a pickup would probably be fine either way.

Tools, well, other than the shovel, some loppers for really long roots or if they are suckers. Some burlap or something to wrap the rootball and keep it moist if it's that kind of transplant. I've been involved in some bigger transplants and have used a chainsaw with an old chain to cut out a large rootball. That's a lot of work, and only applies if you are moving bigger trees. If so though, you can cut out a big ol' plug with the tree, which can help a lot. Cut all around it, pry up the plug, sling it and pick it with a front end loader. This only works if the ground is not too rocky.

As for transplant shock, vitamin B1 is what I've always used for that, and it seems to do wonders. A capful in a couple gallon pot of soil, and again in the hole when you go to plant. Always pre water the hole, add a capful of B1 and some mildly fertilized, rich compost or potting soil, mix it up in the hole and plant.

Water any dirt they will be transported in for sure, you'll want to keep them moist. It's a lot like transporting a dolphin. I'm sure we all know what that's like. Kidding, but still, keep those roots moist. As for containers, if they work for you, great. My preference is to put a big pile of good soil in a pickup and bank the transplants in there for the trip. You can work a lot faster and also lay out long roots without breaking or cutting them to fit in a small container.

I don't have any transplanting resources, but David Allen Sibley's "The Sibley Guide to Trees" is an astonishing work and an important resource I think anyone who is interested in land stewardship should own. Not until you get "A Pattern Language" though Lolly. I'm not going to let you slide on that one, it's absolutely crucial to your planning right now.
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Re: I have a question

Postby George Collins » Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:52 am

Lolly, here are a few things I think I know from the planting and transplanting done so far:
1. The younger the tree the better
2. Don't take a tree growing heavy shade ad immediately place it in full sun
3. Water every other day for two weeks and at least once a week thereafter until it is well established
4. Keep as much of the root system intact as possible
5. Mulch it deep and wide
6. Water infiltration ditches on the uphill side seem to be of material benefit
7. If much of the root system is lost during the transplanting, prune the tree to match
8. You can't really mess up when transplanting willow
9. The leaves of a young tree usually match the leaves of the adult of the same species fairly closely
10. Look for trees that have just recently sprouted from a seed and try to get the entirety of the tap root. So far, these have given me the highest percentage of transplant success.
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Re: I have a question

Postby George Collins » Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:34 pm

Lolly, as I was out touring the previous days' activities this morning, I was mulling your question over. Tis my humble opinion that if one were looking to start a forest using free resources, the best way to do so would be to copy the black walnut play I am currently running. The more I compare said play to all others, the more I like it. Transplanting already established trees is a major pain when compared to planting pregerminated seeds which in turn is harder than planting ungerminated seeds. However, ungerminated seeds have far from a 100% germination rate even if they survive predation by squirrels, deer, etc. By far the best bang for each George-Buck yet spent is to plant germinated seeds. Barring any massive climatic anomalies, the success rate has been over 90% which looks to be about the same as planting bare rooted nursery stock. The only method where my success percentage has been higher has been planting potted specimens but they cost $20+/tree.

If the transplants recently made into the hog-food forest don't do well, I will attempt to replace them next year with pregerminated seeds of the desired species. Planting pre-germinated seeds was the preferred method but I thought the experiment of transplanting wild specimens to tempting to resist.
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Re: I have a question

Postby pa_friendly_guy » Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:15 pm

When you try and transport larger trees in the back of a PU Truck be careful. The wind burn can kill a mature tree if left unprotected as you drive down the road. Cover the trees with a tarp or go slow or both if you are going a long distance. Dig a large hole for each tree. Give the roots plenty of loose dirt to move into as they grow. The old rule was always to dig a $10 hole for a $5 tree. Water the hole as you plant the tree, and water the tree roots in as you backfill. George is right that you should Baby the new tree until it is getting established. Once it has roots and is growing you should be fine and be able to cut back on the work and watering. Large trees give you instant satisfaction, we are americans and we all want that, but again George is right in that smaller trees are much easier to get estblished, and they will grow. In 10 years it will be hard to tell them apart. Since you have the trees in the woods, go ahead and try some larger trees, if they die they die, don't worry. What have you lost? Maybe a little bit of time, and if they grow you have gained alot. Mulching the tree is always a good idea, it holds mosture for the roots as the tree grows. In adition to a spade a madox is often a good tool to get roots out of the ground as you dig up a tree. The only people who do not make any mistakes are the people who don't do anything. So get out there and make some mistakes. :lol: Personally I don't make mistakes, I have Learning Experiences, ;)
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Re: I have a question

Postby Lollykoko » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:38 pm

Thank you so much for the replies. I received my Arbor Day shipment yesterday and plan on making another trek to the farm tomorrow. I know the advice will be helpful. :)

A mattock is similar to a pick, isn't it? Okay, just looked it up in the dictionary and saw a photo. I think I have one of those.

I know I'm going to be wishing I had a well and pump when it comes time to start hauling water. Two dozen gallon jugs take a while to fill when I drive to the spring a couple of miles away, but I'm sure it has to be easier than hauling water up from my ditch.
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Re: I have a question

Postby pa_friendly_guy » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:14 pm

Yes a Mattick is a kind of pick with a wide blade on one side and a point on the other side. [ Spelling was never my strong suit ] Works well for getting under roots and helping to pry them loose. You need to make yourself a russ pump for getting water out of your ditch Lolly. Just dig a hole close to where you need the water so that a supply accumulated in the ditch and pump it out into buckets or what ever. The pump should take you 2 hours to make. Well, I never acutally made one, so lets say 1/2 a day to be safe, lol but it will last a long time and they take no power [ other than your arms ] to operate. Good luck with your plantings.
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Re: I have a question

Postby matt walker » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:47 pm

Guy, that is a great idea about the water. Could save a lot of long trips Lolly, if you plan ahead.
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Re: I have a question

Postby eeldip » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:12 am

water water water. make sure everything is well hydrated.

couple notes:

B vitamins are fine, but just general nutrients is probably more important. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... _12252342/

don't top prune to match lost roots, could damage plants. http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%20ch ... runing.pdf

don't amend your hole, use native soil and topdress. http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%20ch ... dments.pdf
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Re: I have a question

Postby pa_friendly_guy » Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:26 pm

I understand not putting amendments into the hole when you plant a tree because it makes a Pot that the roots do not want to leave. That tree must live right there where you put it, it can't move. So in 5 years the tree that is forced to live on and in the native dirt will be healthier and more vigorour. However, adding things to the hole will increase survival the 1st year and make the tree grow taller in the 1st three years of its life. If deer damage is a concern having a taller tree that the deer can not top can be a big deal. I have used both programs to plant trees. They both work, pick the one that you feel will work best in YOUR situation.
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