Spring Tree Order

Grow some food and stuff!

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Spring Tree Order

Postby matt walker » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:23 am

Well, it's almost embarassing in the shadow of George's HUNDREDS of trees, but I'm going to set aside a little cash and put in an order for some trees this year. Other than a couple Hazelnut trees last spring, and propagating my favorite plum tree, I haven't brought any new trees home in years. I probably won't be able to afford very many, and any I plant will need fencing to keep the sheep from girdling them. I'm thinking about half a dozen. The property has a fair older orchard that produces quite a few apples, so I'm thinking nuts and maybe some pears. I really can only think of a few nut trees that will do well here, walnuts, hazelnuts, probably some pine although I don't think I'm that patient and can't see myself ever really considering pine nuts a significant food source for me. Does anyone have any suggestions? I'm sorta at a loss right now.
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Re: Spring Tree Order

Postby pa_friendly_guy » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:26 am

Interesting Matt, I have been thinking about adding a few nut trees as well. And like you cost is a factor in what types and how many I buy. I want some hazelnut/filbert nut trees for along the road where the power company clear cut my privacy hedge. I think I can get about 5 trees along that area. Pecans seem to be a possibility from what I have been reading, but I do not know any body around here that has tried to grow them. That fact scares me, even though the growers say they will grow in zone 6, and they show their range as far north as western New York state I am concerned how they will produce around here. Some varieties do not drop their nuts until November, we could have a foot of snow on the ground by then. There are pecans trees advertised as " Northern Hardy " that have smaller nuts that may not taste quite as good as some that George can grow down south but they will produce nuts and drop them earlier so they should do better around here. I have also been looking at Chinese chestnut trees. I do know that they grow well around here and they have large tasty nuts. I would love to plant American chestnut trees but I an still afraid of planting the varieties that I have access to from the local nurseries. If I could get some seeds like George acquired of the newest hybrid I would take a chance on growing them, but friends that planted American chestnuts 20 years ago are now showing signs of blight on their trees. I do not have another 20 years to wait and see. Almonds are another possibility for my place. I think they should grow in zone 6 and I like the taste. I will eat nuts from the filberts, I may eat nuts from the English walnuts I planted 25 years ago [ But I have not tasted any nut yet ] I have several Black walnut trees coming on naturally that are starting to produce nuts. The pecans and almonds that I want to plant this year I may never taste. But if I don't plant them now I am sure I will not taste any. Like the old proverb says,, The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, the 2nd best time to plant a tree is today.
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Re: Spring Tree Order

Postby George Collins » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:54 am

Matt,

I have spent so much time studying what grows in my own zone that I am all but completely unfamiliar with what might grow in another. That said, there is a principle I learned long ago while studying the martial arts: the advanced techniques are the basics mastered.

In my opinion, he basics of food forestry are those reliable old standbys that our ancestors have made the mainstay of the homestead for generations: apples, pears, peaches, cherries, figs and plums.

I got some fancy stuff but that is only because of scale. The vast bulk of my food forestry consists of apples, pears and figs with peaches and plums filling in a strong second tier that is being ramped up rapidly. As far as expense, I minimize that at every turn. Just today I dug up 6 peaches and 5 plums. The peaches came from a neighbor's yard and the plums are our native plum that I literally dug from a road side ditch.

The nut trees I'm planting this year consist almost entirely of acorns and nuts that we picked up last fall and have been in stratification since.

I'm also trialing air layering an exceptional seedling pecan and all of the figs I've planted so far came from this technique.

Lastly, one of the pear trees that I collected hog food from last year came from an elderly lady's house that came by her pear tree in a most interesting fashion: her husband came home one day many, many years ago with a limb that he jabbed into the ground and viola! (I'm trialing the heck out of that technique right now.)

So if you are looking for suggestions and money and/or space is limited, I vote to plug in a slam dunk. As long as it is a productive tree and as long a hog will eat it and as long as you eat pork, you can't go wrong.

Buying a $10 pear tree that drops a half ton of hog feed every year for the next 100 years is pretty dang hard to argue with.

And then there is pear preserves and pear pie. You ever had either? Eat a pear pie and you may never eat another apple pie.
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Re: Spring Tree Order

Postby matt walker » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:27 am

Thanks a lot for the considered responses you two. I have placed an initial order at Burnt Ridge Nursery, and will supplement as I think about it more. The livestock on site make it much more complicated, but as you so well illustrate George, they also bring it all full circle and make the effort that much more worthwhile. I've got some pears, plums, cherries, a fig(which is iffy here), hazelnuts, walnuts, and a few long shots like chestnuts and hickories coming in a month or so. I'll keep you posted.
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Re: Spring Tree Order

Postby Lollykoko » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:37 pm

My thought is to go with whatever you can afford (free is fantastic!) and hope for the best.

I have several varieties of nut trees on my wish list. While I know what the weather has been like for the past few years, things can change dramatically over the next 20. The pecans that would be only marginal today (I'm in Zone 5 I think) would probably flourish under the sort of summer we endured last year. But I won't know unless we get them planted soon.

I wish most of my pine trees were cut so that I had room for a few dozen new trees. It's about time for me to get a mailer from the USDA offering low cost trees through the county extension service. Some of you might want to look into that avenue. In this area they don't offer people food producing trees, but there has always been a long list of oak varieties and things like service berry bush.
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Re: Spring Tree Order

Postby George Collins » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:52 pm

If its any consolation, I've had to cage every single tree I've planted so far this year. Usually two t-posts and a concrete reenforcement wire cage. And I've planted maybe 50 so far.

Talk about work.

Dern cows.

Iffn they weren't SO tasty, . . .
"Solve world hunger, tell no one." "The, the, the . . . The Grinch!"

"If you can't beat them, bite them."
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Re: Spring Tree Order

Postby pa_friendly_guy » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:45 am

How big of a ring do you make with the concrete wire George? How much wire is used for each tree? I put wire around the apple trees when I planted them years ago, I am thinking I made the circle 4 feet diameter with the tree planted in the center of the ring. I used 4 ft high welded wire with 1" X 2" holes. I do not know where all that wire is now, I can't find any of it left around here now. I am thinking 12 to 15 trees this year. 6 hazelnut, 2 pecans, maybe 2 paw paw, maybe a mulberry or a yellow gage, and I am thinking 2 Chinese chestnuts at camp and maybe 2 or 4 of them here on the Hill.
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Re: Spring Tree Order

Postby George Collins » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:24 am

Each cage is probably 2 to 2.5' in diameter. They are mostly Youngblood's old tomato cages. He's pretty hard on em which means he goes through em furly quick. So being the good permsteader that I am, I salvages them puppies and press right em back into service. Some of the cages I've pieced together are downright comical looking. But then I don't care. I'm figuring that if I can get em wired up one more time without them disintegrating I'll be home free. By the time the tree are big enough to make it in their own, the cages will be completely useless but by then I'll have saved a bundle of cash.

Plus, being the marine that I am, I get a sick sorta pleasure out of going into the trash pile and pulling out things that coupled with some spit, grit and a good bit if cussin can turn a pine thicket into a reasonable facsimile of the Garden of Eden.

Except my chain saw.

It's a Stihl.
"Solve world hunger, tell no one." "The, the, the . . . The Grinch!"

"If you can't beat them, bite them."
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Re: Spring Tree Order

Postby matt walker » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:05 am

I'm a Stihl man myself. Good tips on the cages, George. But crap, what a pain it is with the critters to contend with. The cows are one thing, but the danged ol' sheep will girdle just about any tree they can get their greasy little hooves on. I spent as much on fencing today as I did on my tree order. I figure I'll make the best of it and make some new paddocks for rotation. That way I'll stack my functions by creating better pasture management possibilities and protecting the new trees. Of course, in a few months the planted areas will be overgrown and I'll want to turn the critters out on it, so I'll be making cages anyway, I'm sure. Cool, twice the expense and effort. Lol. I need to get me a Youngblood to cast off some cages my way.
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Re: Spring Tree Order

Postby George Collins » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:13 pm

In our part of the world, we have The Mississippi Market Bulletin. Contained therein is farm related supplies for sale. Often times used t-posts are listed for sale for a rediculously low price compared to retail. Might y'all have a similar publication?

Additionally, I've been playing with the idea of protecting individual trees with t-posts spaced in a triangle around each tree with an energized polywire held in place by a series of insulators. The wire could span the distance between each tree above the level of the tallest livestock. Once the animals were trained to the fence, you could simply turn it off whenever you needed to enter the field to avoid that 10k jolt to the ear lobe.

I may go this route when I plant out my chestnuts next year as a way to deter predation by deer.
"Solve world hunger, tell no one." "The, the, the . . . The Grinch!"

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